Interviews
Interviews
Podcast
18.12.2023
Peter Hürzeler and his son Alexander have just returned from the USA. There, the co-Managing Directors of Ocean Independence visited the Fort Lauderdale International Boat Show in Florida. The two yacht brokers have customers all over the world who want to buy, sell, rent or even just have motorboats managed. And the battle for these customers is tough, as not everyone can afford a yacht.
Alexander Hürzeler: That was a vacation, I was in New York and Boston. In the end, an experience like that is worth more to me than luxury items.
Peter Hürzeler: It probably runs in the family. For me it was also a vacation, I was in the Netherlands with my wife, where we visited friends.
P: No. We actually used to have a sailing boat for the family, but we've since sold it.
P: Of course, a certain basic understanding is required. But you shouldn't underestimate how much detailed knowledge is actually required. We don't just sell yachts, we also organize trips or help with chartering ships. We organize the crew, plan the routes and analyse the weather. That's more of a hospitality business. The important thing is that we enjoy fulfilling our customers' wishes. You can learn the rest.
A: In yacht management in particular, you benefit from a certain level of expertise. That's why many former sailors work for us. They know their way around the yachts and the technical terms.
P: As a child, I sailed with my family, and later I came to merchant shipping in a roundabout way and sailed on cargo ships. So I've always had a connection to it. I then ventured into the yacht business in the eighties. Initially, we built commercial yachts ourselves and offered them on the charter market. I even sailed the first boats myself. This business was the basis for what Ocean Independence is today. In the nineties, the consulting and management business was added.
A: Ultimately, we have all sizes on offer. So it starts at around 20 meters, but such a ship can also be over 100 meters long. The largest yacht we have ever sold was 110 meters long. We handle around 40 to 50 transactions a year. The prices vary greatly, of course; a small yacht is priced between three and four million, a 100-meter yacht can quickly cost 300 to 400 million. Of course, these are new prices, but there is also a large second-hand market.
A: We actually offer everything to do with yachts, 360-degree support. We help people who want to buy yachts, whether new or used. We also handle the sale on request. We also exclusively broker 80 charter yachts. And some customers also want to rent out their boat when they are not using it themselves. We do that too. And then there's management, where we take care of all the work that arises around the boat over the course of time.
A: Let me put it this way: Many people want to be yacht brokers, the profession has a certain appeal. As a result, there are many more brokers than boats sold per year. Some people call themselves brokers but have never made a sale. It's also a small segment; there are around 14,000 yachts worldwide, of which around 3,000 are offered for charter.
P: If you want to survive in the market, you also need staying power. People who start with us sometimes work for three to four years before they close their first successful deal. Not everyone is cut out for that.
P: Of course our customers are wealthy. You can only buy a yacht like this if you have the financial means to do so. Anything else would be unreasonable. But even if you take that into account, there are big differences. We have an enormous number of families as customers who are fulfilling a lifelong dream. They also buy a comparatively smaller yacht, not a 100-meter ship. That's where the music is, that's where most of the boats are sold.
P: No, from a financial point of view, a yacht is not an investment, no matter how you look at it. Anyone who says otherwise is dubious. But it is of course an investment in quality of life, you can have great vacations on a yacht like this and spend time with your family. That is definitely worth something and what we are selling here.
P: Of course, a boat like that costs a lot of money. You pay for berths, for the ship's diesel, for repairs and maintenance, and occasionally for a new coat of paint. But the biggest item is the crew, which accounts for around 40 percent of it. But there's a reason for that: after all, the crew is crucial to the experience that the owners want. For most of the ships, we work with permanent staff, at least in the key positions. They make sure that people feel comfortable and know what the children like to eat, for example.
A: On average, customers are active on their boat for four to six weeks a year. Of course, the yacht may still have to be brought to its destination. But regardless of this, the boat is free for most of the year. If you offer the boat for charter, you can of course reduce the costs. We also recommend this to our customers. But not everyone wants to do that.
P: It's not about concealing ownership. Internally, we value full transparency and want to know exactly who is buying a yacht. These ownership companies have very practical reasons. If you want to register a yacht as a private individual in Germany, you first have to find an office that knows how to deal with such a request. In Malta, for example, there is a separate authority that specializes in this topic. We often recommend this because it is also an EU country. What we advise against are so-called flag of convenience countries. This does not benefit the customer, except for additional checks in many ports.
A: The requirements regarding transparency are also becoming increasingly strict, for example from the banking side. This has been the case for several years and has been further intensified by the war in Ukraine.
P: That is relevant for the market, Russia was an absolute boom country for yachts before that. It wasn't so important for us personally, we did very little business there. For us, the DACH region is and remains the core market, where we make 30 percent of our turnover. From a global perspective, the USA has become increasingly important in recent years, and the Middle East is always coming and going. Interestingly, the Chinese market doesn't play a role. Everyone has been waiting for it for years, but not much is happening.
About the person:
Peter Hürzeler is CEO of Ocean Independence. He originally started out as a deck officer and then founded one of the first luxury cruise charter companies. He later switched to yacht management and trading. Through mergers and partnerships, he built Ocean Independence into a worldwide network with 15 offices. He was also elected President of MYBA, a global superyacht association, three times.
Alexander Hürzeler has been Finance Project Coordinator at Ocean Independence since 2021. He previously worked at Environmental and Health Protection Zurich and at media marketing company Goldbach Group. He studied banking, finance and accounting in Zurich and St. Gallen.
Interviews
18.12.2023
Lars-Thorben Niggehoff
With their company Ocean Independence, yacht brokers Peter and Alexander Hürzeler offer everything a motorboat enthusiast could wish for. In this interview, they talk about typical buyers, difficult deals and the question of whether a yacht is a good investment.
Peter Hürzeler and his son Alexander have just returned from the USA. There, the co-Managing Directors of Ocean Independence visited the Fort Lauderdale International Boat Show in Florida. The two yacht brokers have customers all over the world who want to buy, sell, rent or even just have motorboats managed. And the battle for these customers is tough, as not everyone can afford a yacht.
Alexander Hürzeler: That was a vacation, I was in New York and Boston. In the end, an experience like that is worth more to me than luxury items.
Peter Hürzeler: It probably runs in the family. For me it was also a vacation, I was in the Netherlands with my wife, where we visited friends.
P: No. We actually used to have a sailing boat for the family, but we've since sold it.
P: Of course, a certain basic understanding is required. But you shouldn't underestimate how much detailed knowledge is actually required. We don't just sell yachts, we also organize trips or help with chartering ships. We organize the crew, plan the routes and analyse the weather. That's more of a hospitality business. The important thing is that we enjoy fulfilling our customers' wishes. You can learn the rest.
A: In yacht management in particular, you benefit from a certain level of expertise. That's why many former sailors work for us. They know their way around the yachts and the technical terms.
P: As a child, I sailed with my family, and later I came to merchant shipping in a roundabout way and sailed on cargo ships. So I've always had a connection to it. I then ventured into the yacht business in the eighties. Initially, we built commercial yachts ourselves and offered them on the charter market. I even sailed the first boats myself. This business was the basis for what Ocean Independence is today. In the nineties, the consulting and management business was added.
A: Ultimately, we have all sizes on offer. So it starts at around 20 meters, but such a ship can also be over 100 meters long. The largest yacht we have ever sold was 110 meters long. We handle around 40 to 50 transactions a year. The prices vary greatly, of course; a small yacht is priced between three and four million, a 100-meter yacht can quickly cost 300 to 400 million. Of course, these are new prices, but there is also a large second-hand market.
A: We actually offer everything to do with yachts, 360-degree support. We help people who want to buy yachts, whether new or used. We also handle the sale on request. We also exclusively broker 80 charter yachts. And some customers also want to rent out their boat when they are not using it themselves. We do that too. And then there's management, where we take care of all the work that arises around the boat over the course of time.
A: Let me put it this way: Many people want to be yacht brokers, the profession has a certain appeal. As a result, there are many more brokers than boats sold per year. Some people call themselves brokers but have never made a sale. It's also a small segment; there are around 14,000 yachts worldwide, of which around 3,000 are offered for charter.
P: If you want to survive in the market, you also need staying power. People who start with us sometimes work for three to four years before they close their first successful deal. Not everyone is cut out for that.
P: Of course our customers are wealthy. You can only buy a yacht like this if you have the financial means to do so. Anything else would be unreasonable. But even if you take that into account, there are big differences. We have an enormous number of families as customers who are fulfilling a lifelong dream. They also buy a comparatively smaller yacht, not a 100-meter ship. That's where the music is, that's where most of the boats are sold.
P: No, from a financial point of view, a yacht is not an investment, no matter how you look at it. Anyone who says otherwise is dubious. But it is of course an investment in quality of life, you can have great vacations on a yacht like this and spend time with your family. That is definitely worth something and what we are selling here.
P: Of course, a boat like that costs a lot of money. You pay for berths, for the ship's diesel, for repairs and maintenance, and occasionally for a new coat of paint. But the biggest item is the crew, which accounts for around 40 percent of it. But there's a reason for that: after all, the crew is crucial to the experience that the owners want. For most of the ships, we work with permanent staff, at least in the key positions. They make sure that people feel comfortable and know what the children like to eat, for example.
A: On average, customers are active on their boat for four to six weeks a year. Of course, the yacht may still have to be brought to its destination. But regardless of this, the boat is free for most of the year. If you offer the boat for charter, you can of course reduce the costs. We also recommend this to our customers. But not everyone wants to do that.
P: It's not about concealing ownership. Internally, we value full transparency and want to know exactly who is buying a yacht. These ownership companies have very practical reasons. If you want to register a yacht as a private individual in Germany, you first have to find an office that knows how to deal with such a request. In Malta, for example, there is a separate authority that specializes in this topic. We often recommend this because it is also an EU country. What we advise against are so-called flag of convenience countries. This does not benefit the customer, except for additional checks in many ports.
A: The requirements regarding transparency are also becoming increasingly strict, for example from the banking side. This has been the case for several years and has been further intensified by the war in Ukraine.
P: That is relevant for the market, Russia was an absolute boom country for yachts before that. It wasn't so important for us personally, we did very little business there. For us, the DACH region is and remains the core market, where we make 30 percent of our turnover. From a global perspective, the USA has become increasingly important in recent years, and the Middle East is always coming and going. Interestingly, the Chinese market doesn't play a role. Everyone has been waiting for it for years, but not much is happening.
About the person:
Peter Hürzeler is CEO of Ocean Independence. He originally started out as a deck officer and then founded one of the first luxury cruise charter companies. He later switched to yacht management and trading. Through mergers and partnerships, he built Ocean Independence into a worldwide network with 15 offices. He was also elected President of MYBA, a global superyacht association, three times.
Alexander Hürzeler has been Finance Project Coordinator at Ocean Independence since 2021. He previously worked at Environmental and Health Protection Zurich and at media marketing company Goldbach Group. He studied banking, finance and accounting in Zurich and St. Gallen.
About the author
Lars-Thorben Niggehoff
Lars-Thorben Niggehoff writes about real estate, start-ups and investing.
